Finding God - A Religious Argument

"Religion, the opium of the masses, the return of the repressed"- Karl Marx

   Recently  I got into  a religious argument by my friend. and it made us ask some questions. Questions I know many have, and still are looking for answers for. Questions some go to the university to study  for years.  Beware it is a long one and you must heard or must have been involved in this kind of argument before; If you are in no mood to read. Don't go any further

For the understanding this could be the everyday conversation of a bored Christian born Nihilist. and a born Muslim who is searching for God amidst the confusion of the world or two graduates from the same university lamenting at our damned existence in recessed Nigeria. it contains the idiosyncrasies, the confusion, and dictions that avails a normal natural arguments envisaging our nurture and our fundamentals that shaped us buttressing the 7 billion individualized and diversed beings that we are.
It goes thus;

AF:  Hey, How do u feel about Islam

ZT: I feel indifferent. (not wanting to say much about it)

AF: How about religion generally??

ZT: Same way bro,  I am a nihilist (wanting to end the discussion before it started)

AF: I still think religion makes some sense

ZT: Not to me (Knowing an argument was underway) In the name of God, billions have died (I bit)

AF: I get you. Will u study Islam? The whole thing's just too complicated

ZT: I studied Islam a little in service

AF: But, Its too risky dying without a celestial belief. What if there was God? And he wanted you to be a Muslim, Christian or Buddhist?

ZT: If there is a God, He will be omniscient enough to know I will turn out this way

AF: Believe me. I'm not talking nonsense

ZT: I know. I just don't wanna anymore, I just don't care

AF: You're absolutely making sense.But even if we were created to be this way - With doubts,I think the quest for truth is deliberately made a little obscured, made to be solved like a puzzle When you unravel it, you've found God

ZT: Then animals should also search for the truth. To me the simplicity of their existence and their leaving everything for God, is exactly what He wants, God is not lost. Humans overrate their existence, Sometimes you forget we are just one planet in one galaxy amidst billions

AF: U can research about Islam. I can link you with or send u deliberate articles if u want. Do you know if animals don't search for the truth

ZT: I know somewhere in another galaxy theirs is another religion and they claim to be the best (trying to sound sarcastic and buttress my nihilistic affliation)

AF:  Says science! Did they reach those galaxies??

ZT: I listen to Mufti Menk and some Islamic scholars though But to me, Religion is like a chess game to determine who will win. And I don't want to play I'd rather be  a proud loser

AF: Someone said something called The Big Bang created us. Do you think u were made by accident‬? Do you believe in God?, That he made us and the universe?, The proper way to serve him? Or maybe if  He doesn't even deserve to be served??

ZT: I was oblivious before birth I will be oblivious after. "The only eternity you have is what you leave here on earth" The bible said only 144 thousand will make heaven After 2 world wars my guess is it's full already About we serving God, that's his business (He alone knows who serves him). The way humans talk about God - Does he need my praise to survive?

AF:  I will send u periodical medias and links. U won't mind ?

ZT: Not at all. What reinvigorated your faith It couldn't be joblessness (reducing his sudden quest for God to joblessness associated with the unemployment scourge, courtesy of the Recession)  One of my friend picked up the Bible recently too.

AF: I don't want you to see the whole thing  with an adamant mind. But be ready to change when you meet one that's capable of changing you.

ZT: Just remember no matter the nobility of your intentions the next man praying next to you is a hypocrite. I have not gone to church in 2 years (I exaggerated. affirming the futility of being changed)

AF: I haven't changed much. I didn't even do my compulsory prayer this morning, I'm praying for myself to improve on that too. I just know there's a God and He has to be sought after, I know all that with questions such as - Someone must have made us? And for a reason?  Just like we made houses to live in, and cars to drive, someone put life in that child in the womb, Not science, It had to be a supreme Being.

ZT: Yes, I get you. I don't argue with that. But who cares?

AF: I also wanted to see everything with my logical perspectives, Without any reference to mystery or magic. And I found out even in my logical perspectives that someone must have made me

ZT: Leave him alone

AF: He didn't ask u to leave him Even if the world says you should

ZT: The problem with humans is that they look for a man that they haven't seen. But the man in front of them they deny his existence. Instead of praying, how many beggars have you helped The God you serve is in the people you see. You can't claim love for God if you don't love your neighbors Look at these foolish pastors who claim to talk to God and God never told them to at least cook a bag of rice for the people in IDP camp (people affected by the Boko Haram scourge) Instead 'God' told them to buy private jet and build universities (which was becoming the competitive norm among Churches in Nigeria).

The Alhaji drive past the beggar everyday who is a Muslim like him but instead of giving and helping his neighbour who is a human like him he goes to Mecca to go and stone "satan" who is on his own (citing my example from an Islamic analogy advertently to drive home my point) We are all hypocrites. The ironic thing is people who went to pray to God, finally met Him. when he decided to takethem to his side. (thousands of Muslim that died in the Mecca stampede). Its good to search for God. But who told you He was missing - He is the beggar, He is the leprous man by the roadside. Not in a book written years ago

          "Who prays for the devil? Who in the sixteen century remembers to pray for the one sinner that needs it the most" - Mark Twain

AF: I'm not a Perfect Muslim.I told u I didn't even do my Salat this morning. Religion is a way of       life. And so, a real Muslim should be able to live the perfect way of life. Such as living above all your allegations. U don't have to be a Pastor or a Muslim like me. You can be a Pastor in your own way or a Perfect Muslim in your own way. A perfect Muslim will help anywhere he can. 

I get u quite well, Its hard to argue with a genius Maybe you should stop reading those books

ZT: I'm not a genius I have just seen a lot. But I think you are a very good Muslim. And God knows that too. He spoke to David and Saul- these men were murderers.You are a saint compared to these people. So don't worry about God. He is looking at our foolishness and laughing.

AF:You know, People actually misunderstood the meaning of JIHAD. I actually asked you of your views on Islam because I found a christian equivalence of that word online: I was wondering if you share those views tooThere was a christian who said "Quran, the book that changed the world" There were many people in agreement and of course so many in disagreement too. Then he replied one of the opposers by  asking them to check the meaning of 'crusade' in dictionary, That I don't agree to. I'll send you some periodical articles when I find things I think might be good for u  Or maybe you could get an English Quran, just read to see just how FOOLISH we Muslims are.

ZT: Islam is just one religion Of course

AF: The quest is to find just that ONE that makes u stop searching

ZT: U will never find it! God is an elephant felt by blind men

AF: I think I did! I just pray I'll be more devoted. U're very adamant. Should I send you iQuran? Maybe with nightplan (Highlighting the problem Nigerians go through to browse and download with all the similar criminal-minded network providers)

See I'm not trying to convert you, but I think everyone needs God. And You should know I'm             not that foolish to just follow some dumb beliefs  Its just something I feel and I don't know                 how to explain

ZT: That feeling is what i  call an institutionalized numinous experience You will always think you have found truth within the constraint of your religion, If you were a pagan and found God through Islam I might believe you.You are Muslim because you were born one ‬

AF: God must have made us for some reason U don't know why But definitely not to just sit there and say he made us for no reason. Its too risky to die that way. Maybe You prefer converted preachers I'll send u a video of Yusuf Estes, also At night. AlthoughThat seems logical too.

ZT: The way you talk about God  shows that you don't want to be disappointed. Praying and wishing that God is human. I know that your mental image of God is that of a Bearded man sitting his ass on a golden chair with a secretary to mark your good and bad.like a class teacher. It is called anthropomorphism - Giving God human attributes. You say its too risky to die that way because you don't want to go to hell? (Trying to Explain the misplaced priority the world suffers from through this analogy. And buttress the fact that Humans need God for their own personal gain.God is the Devil ruminate on that for a while ( I pontificated)

AF: Maybe not with beards.... But definitely someone watching us. Powerful enough to do that without a secretary. He says we must take account for all our actions. And that"s logical as well.

ZT: People only convert because of the fear of hell. And that alone to me is selfish

AF: We were thought that action and reaction are equal and opposite. I can't do money ritual not because  I'm scared of being arrested by the police. I'm scared of God and I'm scared of hell. You shouldn't expect ritualists to die and be risen with one who didn't cos he feared God. That's why science said "action and reaction - equal and opposite". \

You dont think we go somewhere when we die?, I'm a Muslim and of course I fear hell. And that's big enough to fear. Selfishness is a terrestrial concept if u think of it in that context. Its called fear of God in the Quran. If You call that selfishness Then  All human actions must be. since we do everything for ourselves

ZT: How many people who have died and risen have come back to tell you that such a concept exist Selfishness to me just is. Your parents could love you and still it could be selfish they will stop you from explore the world they did

I have seen more evidence of reincarnation than heaven and hell

AF: If you doubt hell. Maybe u think it's too big to believe and could to be stressful to make. He doesn't even need to make one. The sun can swallow a million worlds stacked together. I get u quite well, But some risks are just too high take, Some people will, or should I say might, burn for eternity just because they lived about 60 years on earth doubting whether there was God without even bothering to find him. What if he exists and intentionally chooses to conceal himself.  And punishes any one who doesn't look for even in the thinnest drops of waters to find him? He does everything the way he likes. Just like builder builds a house just to suit him. Hells are in grade. I think heavenly things are bigger than earthly things. The sun would crush this earth if it fell on it, Heavenly things are big.

ZT: Why do you want to find God If it is for the gold and virgins you are mistaken good sir.

AF: Gold's and virgins?

ZT: Those things are religious advertisements for your information!

AF: I'm not even a fan of gold here on earth. I don't want to burn!

ZT: If it is so that you can make heaven also,  do so   But I remember Jesus saying if there is love here on earth that heaven will be the world will rather destroy earth because of the promise of heaven. since the promise of the after life no one seems to care about this life. if the after life was so interesting Jesus wouldn't come down to save this one. Just saying.

AF:Its not like If you are not in heaven then you can stay in  on your own in space. You are either in hell or heaven. At least the Quran says that. I want to make heaven because I don't want to be in hell.

ZT: What makes you think there's hell. To me that is just the theory of duality. you know left.. right, ying...yang, good...bad, Forget all those stories about people who claim to have seen heaven or hell, like the one where a lady dreamt and saw Jesus or Muhammed taking her around like a child on vacation .blah blah blah. Or John Lennon being in hell

Have you ever asked yourself why angels have Jewish names (Michael, Raphael..) and no one came to disprove the aforementioned or give us names of Black Angels. (I rambling now)

AF: I think there's Hell Because the Quran says so

ZT: The Quran is just one book... Islam is just one religion. Still that doesn't make it true

AF: Ànd even the theory of duality. Has it been proven to be true enough

ZT: What do u think?:

AF: Guy we're not going to stop talking about this (He admitted)

Go to Heaven for the Climate and To Hell for the Company - Oscar Wilde

AF: Some of my students in the East couldn't just figure out why I had to be a Muslim. They probably never even met a Muslim before, One said I was too GOOD to be a Muslim. I told her I would have love their Christianity more if they practiced it around my place in the West

ZT: The only reason you accept it is because your father and father's father accepted it.

AF:  Find one that makes u stop searching. Find something!

ZT: I know. As I was saying. About all these stories about going to heaven and going to hell. Nobody actually came and disprove what is said. All of them claim Jesus is the son of God. And  remember according to the Quran, Yisa (Jesus) is just a prophet. All those who claim to have seen heaven still confirm the same old told tale that they have been told

My point nut-shelled and advise to people is instead of looking for something that will grant today's vampires (Christians) entire life. You need to focus on your existence here and now and how best you can make good of it. The hypocrisy of most people though. When you ask some old people their regret none of them remember not serving God instead they remember not taking care of their children or loving their wives more

AF: I wish you can ask them again after they died

ZT:  I understand your new found fear, But if you have been as alone as I have and thought as long you will know that nothing is right or wrong. Religion just want to reject things that makes us happy. Be free. Be happy. If I ask you Being with Oge(His girlfriend) and reading the Quran that which would you prefer. Think well and your real answer determines your reason for existence. You are an animal first. Be one (Trying to buttress my point of religion which main purpose act as stop gaps to  our life. telling us that the things of the flesh is bad)

AF: I'm not a very religious person anyway. I'm trying to change

My rights and wrong are right till i am right with God" - Kendrick Lamar

ZT: I'm telling you that God is saying you don't have to change. He loves you. He created you. He knows you. And all that you are, is enough and according to his masterplan.

AF: Hmmmmm

ZT: Come to think of it judgment day will be funny ( I make a Joke) Imagine a TV screen showing all the bad and embarrassing things of more than 7 billion people. Imagine you seeing me struggling with one small girl because of sraff (localized name for sex  -/ me projecting my pervertedness)

AF: God is powerful. Only a Powerful person can make a world like this. This big world, big sun,       everything. With all these complicated people. You can have all your wrongs forgiven, If u repent

ZT: That doesn't mean that you will not Still see it.

I understand and do not dispute I'm just saying. If you are created indeed in the image of God what have you cared for? What are you scared of ? He created you with imperfections. The whole Adam and Eve issue is just a story. they are also called cosmology - things people make up to give meaning to their existence. All religions have those.

AF: Me I don't know. But it shouldn't be so funny anyways, we'll all have our own issues to deal with and besides we'll have an upgraded brain. We won't have to laugh at people's wrongs like we did on earth

Besides I don't think the Quran says we were made in God's image

ZT: Really? (that's new I was meant to believe otherwise)

AF:We're just so far below God. Low in everything : See our brains We can think about infinity. Farness confuses us

ZT: That's the slave mentality entrenched in the Quran in contrast Bible told us that we are children of God even though that has given some pastors the belief that they can command God

AF: We're servants of God. We serve, or should serve, God. That's why the Quran says he made us in the first place

ZT: And what will us serving give him ?

‬AF: It is well, I just hope He helps us to see things just as right as they are

ZT: And allow us to look for our neighbors in need and not for him in his almightiness because of misplaced priority born from hypocritical and self centered love for God

AF: He's mysterious I don't read the Quran too much,  Maybe I'll ask about that  It  has to be in there somewhere. The Quran has answers to any questions anyone might ever ask. But maybe he does just for fun To show his magnificence

God even created your neighbours He affects how much they can do for u through the circumstances He places around them, For instance, someone might not give you the 10k he promised you just because he lost a child that day. I'm not a preacher, just using a logical perspective

ZT: This is why we are all flawed. Firstly using the pronoun "He" for God thinking he is a man. That will always make you think that "of course he should have a conscience" and should protect those who serve him. Israelite served Him and because of just because Achan, he still punished them

AF: So You who is not fooled, What pronoun do you use for him? ( I admit, He got me)

ZT: The Jews suffered the Holocaust from Hitler a man created by God. Hitler should have drowned as boy but was saved by a priest. Coincidence?

AF: I used to ask before why the Quran was written and is advised to be read in Arabic. There's been so many coincidences on earth We attach meaning to things however way we choose. Coincidence, probably or probably not. We are told again that nothing happens without God's knowledge. That is still one thing that confuses me. I know u will ask Why God will punish u for doing what he already willed. I don't why know actually.  But again, I fear God and hell. So at least I'll try to be as good as I can be in accordance to the Quran.

ZT: Being good for the Qur'an is not good enough. I prefer being good for and by yourself   is what's best and also  for you to forgive yourself

AF: Ok  I get you. But I just thought the Quran is more 'good' than me. I thought being good for the Quran meant being good even above my own logical peak  It is well. I just pray God helps us to understand Him more

Its a prayer for you and me. ‬You don't have to say Amen. He still answers. Its well bro.

      At the end we cant claim to understand God either as a concept or as a person while I think of Him as an unpredictable Algorithm, He wants to understand God as a caring father who thinks well of him and who will probably never forget him.

My argument is to tell people to stop looking skywards when we have God in our neighbours and should love them no matter what. He would wants us to do the good. The will of God posited through books which also preaches the same thing. I'm just saying the time you could spend understand and re-understanding a book that takes the intervention of the holy spirit to understand you might as well understand the life around you and how to understand the world we stand under.

I admit we might just be two confused people talking the same thing (Chicken and the egg) Life and the Purpose of it all.

This is Just to point to the world that we all have questions and times we question the existence of either a Father up above or an algorithim we can hack by doing good. and it is okay to have questions.

Arguments fall under the scrutiny of the mood, the fear of the arguer and should in no way be used to judge a person. we remain the best of friends regardless. As the arguments like this shift the very foundation of your existence at times, and brings us closer to a better understanding of ourselves. we found the latter and affirm the fact that truly things are the way they are because God loves variety and hates monotony, and that is the beauty of the world itself. because variety remains the spice of life

Thanks to Afeez Damola, and Victor Samuel (Zetsu)